Are you for or against e-cigs in enclosed public spaces? As Wales prepares to control the practice of vaping from 2017, we canvassed opinions from either side of the debateFORWelsh Liberal Democrat AM Peter Black argues why it would be a mistake to ban e-cigarettes in pubs, clubs and restaurantsThe journey taken by e-cigarettes over the past few years has been remarkable.From virtually nowhere, we can now find a shop selling them on every high street.Tens of thousands of people suffer and die prematurely each year in the UK from cancer, heart disease and other conditions directly linked to smoking.It is an addiction than many find difficulty in quitting.Liberal Democrat AM Peter Black warned homelessness was a year-round issueLib Dem AM Peter Black said the most vulnerable people were not being protectedE-cigarettes are not harmless nor are they risk-free – very few things are – but they do offer a route to a healthier lifestyle.An expert independent evidence review published by Public Health England concluded that e-cigarettes are significantly less harmful to health than tobacco and have the potential to help smokers quit smoking.They are rushing into legislation without having done their homeworkThey said that the current best estimate is that e-cigarettes are around 95% less harmful than smoking.However, there are some who take a different view and who are cautious about the growth of this phenomenon.The Welsh Government started out by wanting to introduce the same restrictions on the use of e-cigarettes in public as apply to cigarettes.They now only want to limit the ban to some public spaces and buildings.They are concerned that e-cigarettes will normalise smoking, especially for children.Smoking regular in cars carrying children was made illegal in Wales and England last yearThey want to take a precautionary approach against the possibility that the vapour from e-cigarettes might be harmful.What they are not doing is considering evidence of the good that e-cigarettes do and how their own actions might undermine that benefit.They are rushing into legislation without having done their homework so as to justify their ban.When the smoking ban was introduced in Wales there was very clear evidence as to the harmful impact of second-hand smoke on people’s health.Ministers are using legislation to try to regulate a perfectly legal activityI sat on a cross-party committee that spent months looking at the research and listening to expert testimony before backing that ban.There is no such evidence with regards to e-cigarettes.Instead, ministers are using legislation to try to regulate a perfectly legal activity so as to change people’s behaviour.The anti-smoking campaign group ASH Wales, Cancer Research UK and Tenovus are among those opposed to this ban, while the British Heart Foundation, British Lung Foundation and the Royal College of Physicians want more evidence to be gathered.Furthermore, in a public consultation on the proposals last year, 79% of responses were opposed.Some people who vape are concerned that they will now be cast outside to join the smokers and that this will lead to them returning to smoking.An e-cigaretteIndeed, there is some evidence in other countries that this is what has happened.There is strong evidence that e-cigarettes have enabled a large number of people to give up smoking, something that decades of lectures by government have failed to do.The Public Health England review found that almost all of the 2.6 million adults using e-cigarettes in Great Britain are current or ex-smokers.Most are using the devices to help them quit smoking or to prevent them going back to cigarettes.As for the danger of normalising smoking or encouraging young people to take it up, other studies have found that this is not the case.The concern that e-cigarettes would lure young people to smoking has not been supported by evidenceA survey by Action on Smoking and Health (ASH) Wales found very few young people between 13 and 18 who have never smoked have tried e-cigarettes. Less than 3% of “never-smokers” who responded to the survey reported having tried an e-cigarette.The survey also suggested that, of the young people who had tried e-cigarettes, a quarter had done so to help them stop smoking or cut down on the number of cigarettes they smoked.Professor Peter Hajek, director of the Tobacco Dependence Research Unit at Queen Mary University of London, told a summit in Wales that “virtually nobody” who is a non-smoker experimenting with e-cigarettes would move on to daily smoking.He said: “The concern that e-cigarettes would lure young people to smoking has not been supported by evidence.Can e-cigs really help in the effort to quit smoking tobacco?“About half of non-smokers who experiment with cigarettes progress to daily smoking.“In a striking contrast to this alarming effect, among non-smokers experimenting with e-cigarettes, virtually nobody progresses to daily use.”Another survey, commissioned by the Welsh Government, reported at the end of last year.Researchers asked regular users of vaping devices if they had previously been tobacco-users, and almost every single respondent said yes. Of the 3,565 people aged 16 and older spoken to, only 1% of adults said they were e-cigarette users who had never smoked before.A further 9% said they had tried e-cigarettes and considered themselves “non-smokers”.Of those who currently use e-cigarettes, not one person said they had never smoked before.Government shouldn't tell people how to conduct their lives without good-quality evidenceBoth Cancer Research UK and ASH Wales have warned that the e-cigarette ban could be a backwards step in the fight to reduce smoking rates.In addition, the saving to the public purse of the growth of e-cigarettes is substantial, and that is before we consider the improved health of ex-smokers.The Health and Social Care Information Centre states that the average cost to the taxpayer of helping a smoker quit using Nicotine Replacement Therapy products rather than e-cigarettes is between £150 and £300.Many people need more than one treatment and many revert back to smoking after some time.There are roughly 467,530 smokers in Wales (20% of the adult population).If each of those quit smoking via vaping instead of using taxpayer-funded Nicotine Replacement Therapy products, then the saving to the Welsh health budget could be more than £10.5m.Good legislation is evidence-based and will seek to right a wrong or improve the quality of our lives.Proposals by Welsh ministers to restrict the use of e-cigarettes in some public places fail to meet either of those criteria.It is not the role of government to tell people how to conduct their lives without good-quality evidence of harm to support their actions.AGAINSTMedia Wales Chief Reporter Martin Shipton argues why electronic cigarettes should be banned in indoor public placesMartin ShiptonMartin ShiptonThe first priority of any government must be to keep its population alive and healthy.Inevitably this can lead to the imposition of regulations and restrictions that will annoy and even infuriate some.Libertarian fundamentalists will moan about the “nanny state” and say people must have the right to behave as they please within the law. But in the interests of the majority, regulation is sometimes necessary.The issue of whether individuals should be allowed to smoke electronic cigarettes in indoor public places is the latest battleground where freedom versus prudent regulation is being played out.The Welsh Government has proposed such a ban, but does not hold a majority in the National Assembly and is having difficulty getting the legislation through.Many have no conscience about the fact that most non-smokers find tobacco smoke nauseatingI support Health Minister Mark Drakeford’s wish to get a ban in place, which is in line with the policy of the World Health Organisation and, incidentally, that of the British Medical Association.The sometimes aggressive stance of e-cigarette proponents is reminiscent of the position taken by many conventional smokers before their products were banned in such a way.Many insisted they had an absolute right to smoke anywhere they chose, and had no conscience about the fact that most non-smokers find tobacco smoke nauseating.How many restaurant meals were ruined by someone on the next table who found it impossible to resist smoking between courses or immediately they had finished their meal?A smoking ban in public places took more than 40 years to be introduced after scientific research proved definitively that there was a causal link between smoking and cancer.It wasn’t until numerous studies demonstrated a link between passive smoking and life-threatening health conditions that legislators decided to take action.A significant number of lives were lost while politicians agonised over whether it was fair to limit the rights of smokers, despite overwhelming evidence that a ban on smoking in public places was the right measure to pass.The ban struck the right balance between regulation and personal liberty.For those of us who suffer from asthma or other lung-related conditions, the ban has been even more beneficialPeople could continue to smoke if they were foolish enough to want to do so; they just wouldn’t be allowed to impose their disgusting habit on others in indoor public places.As a result of the ban, it is now far more pleasant to eat out, to have a drink in a pub and to visit all manner of public spaces without having to inhale other people’s smoke.For those of us who suffer from asthma or other lung-related conditions, the ban has been even more beneficial.In only a few years since the ban was introduced, an intrusive environmental pollutant that damaged our health and our spirits has been evicted from our lives.an inhaler used for treating asthmaan inhaler used for treating asthmaNow our well-being and peace of mind is at risk once more from new kinds of smoking products that, in some cases, are being heavily marketed at young people in particular.E-cigarettes are, we are told, 95% safer than tobacco products.Even if that were so – and they haven’t been on the market nearly long enough to evaluate their long-term health impact – a risk 5% as potent as smoking conventional cigarettes should be seen in the context of an industry which killed an estimated 100 million people in the 20th century – far more than all who died in World War I and World War II combined.And if current smoking patterns continue, the number of lives lost from smoking in the 21st century will leap to around a billion.Reintroducing smoking into the public sphere risks re-normalising an activity curtailed due to its negative health impactsSupporters of e-cigarettes argue that since the risk they pose to individuals is so much less, and as they can be used as a means of weaning people off tobacco, they should be granted the status of full social acceptability.I disagree.Reintroducing smoking into the public sphere, albeit that the products concerned are e-cigarettes, risks re-normalising an activity that was curtailed because of its negative health impacts.Before we allow the gains to be lost, we should consider whether the precautionary principle should be applied in these circumstances.The precautionary principle holds that a course of action should not be embarked on if there is a reasonable chance that harm may ensue and where there is insufficient scientific consensus that the risk is negligible.Much to the annoyance of the e-cigarette lobby, the World Health Authority concluded in 2014 that, in line with the precautionary principle, e-cigarettes should be banned in public places.The lack of tobacco isn't the issue - it's the nicotine in e-cigsFocusing on the fact that while e-cigarettes contain no tobacco, they have high levels of nicotine, the WHO’s report said: “Nicotine is the addictive component of tobacco. It can have adverse effects during pregnancy and may contribute to cardiovascular disease. Although nicotine itself is not a carcinogen, it may function as a ‘tumour promoter’.“Nicotine seems involved in fundamental aspects of the biology of malignant diseases, as well as of neurodegeneration.“The evidence is sufficient to caution children and adolescents, pregnant women and women of reproductive age about (e-cigarette) use because of the potential for foetal and adolescent nicotine exposure to have long-term consequences for brain development.”For me, the case for banning e-cigarettes in public places is a no-brainerThe report continues: “The main health risk from nicotine exposure other than through inhalation is nicotine overdose by ingestion or through dermal contact.“Since most countries do not monitor these incidents the information is very scarce.“Reports from the US and the UK nonetheless indicate that the number of reported incidents involving nicotine poisoning has risen substantially as the use of (e-cigarettes) has increased.“The actual number of cases is probably much higher than those reported.”Turning to the issue of whether e-cigarettes could pose a risk to those who passively inhale the vapour they generate, the WHO report states: “The use of (e-cigarettes) in places where smoking is not allowed … increases the exposure to exhaled aerosol toxicants of potential harm to bystanders.”The report concludes: “The increasing concentration of the (e-cigarette) market in the hands of the transnational tobacco companies is of grave concern in light of the history of the corporations that dominate that industry.”For me, the case for banning e-cigarettes in public places is a no-brainer. There is nothing to stop those wishing to use them as an aid to giving up tobacco doing so in their own homes.